Description
With all the foot traffic that comes and goes from both egresses to the Kingston Plaza, I would love to see the plaza become more pedestrian accessible. Crosswalks, pedestrian right of way signage, a sidewalk or walkway for both entrances. As someone who frequently walks to the plaza with my daughter to shop, I am constantly on guard for speeding cars, people who are taking turns too quickly/tightly, and those who are not paying attention in general. There is no place for me to safely cross from Clinton Ave. into the plaza from either entrance, and no place to cross from the sidewalk on Westbrook Lane into the plaza (or for that matter- no way to safely reach the businesses in the plaza). Has this issue been introduced previously? Is it a matter of privately owned and maintained property? What action needs to be taken to see this addressed?
34 Comments
kingstoncorridor.com (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
PD (Guest)
Anonymous (Guest)
kingstoncorridor@gmail.com (Guest)
I think you are dead on: here is some information. I hope this will help you follow through. Then post your actions and others will follow your lead.
I've added a link to show the Kingston Corridor on a Ward Map of Kingston...
http://kingstoncorridor.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/adding-a-corridorward-map-view/
The area is in Ward 2, the alderman is Tom Hoffay,
his email is ward2@ci.kingston.ny.us
His address is Second Ward
Thomas Hoffay
(845)331-8317
160 Tremper
Perhaps Mr Hoffay will contact the owners on behalf of the citizens. Perhaps he will tell the citizens how to get in touch with the owners, a very important business in his ward. Perhaps your alderman will do something. Perhaps the alderman at large, J Noble will do something.
phototaker (Guest)
kingstoncorridor,com (Guest)
thank you!
kev50hum (Guest)
gberke (Guest)
kev50hum:
That doesn't sound helpful or sympathetic. It sounds to me like "hey, that's really not a problem: just take the bus". That would be $2, round trip, the cost, the schedule.
I could be wrong. You might really be suggesting that until the problem is fixed, here's a solution you might consider.
Anonymous (Guest)
gberke (Guest)
And there are places where they are woefully lacking: the Ward 4 stretch of Broadway and by the library, and of course, the whole passageway to the Plaza.
Good work! "Go, pedestrians!" takes on a better meaning than "Flee! the light is changing! A car is turning on red! Careful, is that guy gonna stop before he comes right up to my shoes?"
Anonymous (Guest)
concerned_person (Guest)
especially since people cross over tracks at all points.
ConcernedMother529 (Guest)
citizen k (Guest)
Might I suggest that uptown mother send a note to Hoffay? You have the direct experience of what you are writing about and that's a very strong position to come from.
We can post our results and what the people in authority say here as needed, hopefully with some success, and then we can thank them and congratulate everyone all around. Or turn up the heat another notch.
You can see the ward map and the list of alderman names and contact information here:
http://kingstoncorridor.wordpress.com/2010/08/12/adding-a-corridorward-map-view/
Seriously? (Registered User)
Community Neighbor (Guest)
jm (Guest)
Seriously? (Registered User)
@Uptown Mother & everyone
The intersection from Clinton Ave. into the plaza is on a public road. Has anyone gotten any further on the request of better signage for crosswalks here for safety? Has there been any updates in general about this?
@Gerald,
Is Brad@herzogs.com showing lack of interest, or lack of $? I think his motivations can be worked on from either angle. We may be able to get a little further with this to help out.
@Jm,
Good Points. It is really unfortunate that a private businessman who owns a lot this size doesnt have money to invest in improving it, or want to. Its also really sad that meeting the DOT and State requirements, and not exceeding them to make everyone happy, is his current resolution/position.
IF we find that he is not meeting safety requirements/law set forth by the state, I think we have good cause to keep pushing for the resolution. But until then, there is no motivation/ leverage to help him decide to make things better for pedestrians.
But since the owner is standing firm, and is legally not obligated to do more, without the city offering up money to help him improve his lot, (which is doubtful due to tight budgets) And without anyone willing to volunteer the money required to make this location safer for pedestrians, we are at a firm stalemate.
The best we can do, is to understand that the owners do not wish to ease pedestrian access, and those who shop there, can let that affect their decision about where to shop. We can assume they understand that this hurts business by discouraging pedestrians from shopping there.
Please everyone be safe while trying to walk there. if it takes ten minutes more, and you have to walk a block further, because the block you are trying to cross is too busy, please walk that extra block. This is a bad spot, and will most probably continue to be for a while. If you are personally affected by this, please contact Brad@herzogs.com and let him know how this affects you. hopefully if he gets a better idea of what is happening, he may change his mind in the future.
Lets keep going in this positive angle, and see how far we can get.
Community Neighbor (Guest)
I think an open letter to the Kingston Plaza sent to the Freeman and especially the Kingston Times might bring some more attention. There was the improvement off of Schwenk drive, but there is no way to cross to the drug store, or Herzog's for that matter.
If you will send me your email address I will forward a copy of the correspondence between me and Brad@herzogs.com. I'd rather not post the entire string.
Yes, we need toi try again.
gberke@gmail.com
anon (Guest)
Seriously? (Registered User)
I believe that would be illegal.
You cant force a business owner into expensive repairs because pedestrian traffic is complaining. Its like the town asking for a monetary bribe to allow the process to continue.
I dont think we want to do that to a business owner.
anon (Guest)
Julie M (Guest)
vadhopper (Registered User)
I think this is a great discussion.
Personally, I think the city needs to invest in a whole bunch of pedestrian crosswalk signs (the kind of signs that sit in the middle of the road). They need to be replaced often because they often get hit - but the cost is worthwhile. The overall cost is not that high.
We need to collectively think about cost effective solutions. The idea of putting policeman there (expect on special occasionas with particularly high traffic) is too expensive. This is not the day and age for increasing the city budget. But that doesn't mean that we can't come up with a cheap solution.
The Jordan's (who own the Plaza) have been responsive to fioxes that are low cost - so they can help as well. Let's all think about cost effective solutions.
phototaker (Guest)
Gerald Berke (Registered User)
I mentioned Complete Streets policy, and Kris Wilson at Cornel Cooperative, putting in the groundwork for these kinds of improvements
Robert (Registered User)
I agree with Gerald. Complete Streets are the way to go.
Honestly, I believe they're the future of Kingston along with the trolley system being rebuilt.
vadhopper (Registered User)
This issue may be partially addressed with the grid proposal included in the I-587 and Albany Ave intersection.
http://www.co.ulster.ny.us/planning/i587.html
I am keeping the issue open (I have closed many others) since it is important - and this has been the healthiest of discussions. Let's keep trying to figure out how to implement Complete Streets cost effectively. Specific programs needs support to move forward. Can anyone suggest where public pressue will help?
magpi (Guest)
Would it be at all helpful if someone tallied how many pedestrians were using the egresses on foot or on bicycle (both to and from)? The last time I brought my daughter down her stroller was almost hit by an sub leaving the professional complex, as the woman driving was "blinded" by the setting sun. Her passenger switched positions with her she was so shaken by the occurrence. Needless to say I was shaken as well and would hate to see an accident occur before a safer solution is implemented.
Thank you for keeping this open. Personally I feel attention to this matter would benefit uptown Kingston and would love to see it resolved. With the nice weather I feel it is such a shame to be wary of a simple walk to the store.
Community Neighbor (Guest)
Streets are for people and bikes and buggies too...
uptown resident (Guest)
vadhopper (Registered User)
I do disagree with uptown resident - their have been repairs, and there are ongoing improvements. I applaud the Jordan's for the improvements made. I think they can continue to improve the situation as the Plaza fills with tenants.
That said - it is still not super pedestrian friendly. The improvements that were suggested in the grid planning and I587 are coming up in the TIP list - that may provide help. Unlike some, I do not think the entire weight of improvements lie on the Jordans (the owners of the Plaza), but I do think they can do more - and should work with the public projects to maximize the effect of future dollars with the rail trails and other pedestrian improvement that are coming down the line.
Let's keep supporting the issue.
vadhopper (Registered User)