Good lord, this is incredibly frustrating, and I'm certain that it's why people run red lights and speed as fast as possible to reach the next intersection before a light turns red.

So often, it seems like the traffic lights create the congestion and put cyclists and pedestrians at risk as a result.

I had to do 65 from a green on college (Jack rabbit start) to temple I made a light today although it was yellow - then I felt like that cop in Milford. I just wanted to see if it was possible to go more than one block and there was no one around, traffic or pedestrian. I normally stay within speed limits especially near Yale and pedestrians cause they don't look !!

Does this not encourage speeding. I like NYC's system of sychronizing the pedestrian signals with the lights, maybe Traffic & Parking could learn a few things from the NYC system instead of idling cars, trucks and buses polluting our city.

Did you know Broadway was or still is one of the most polluted intersections in the state??

I understand the need to "control" traffic but please one block !! At least on Chapel street if you do 20 you can get 3-4 lights, then one red then 3-4 more.

I avoid downtown like the plaque for this reason. Never catch me shopping or eating downtown- way to go Johnny De.

I see alot of chatter on this site about red light cameras, and I think they're fine, but if you want to deal with the problem of cars running red lights you have to fix the problems with the lights themselves.

Installing red light cameras - but not fixing the problems of erratic unsynchronized signals - will only cause drivers to stop short and rear-end each other. It will make intersections more dangerous.

I'm sympathetic to the needs of pedestrians and cyclists, but on this site, drivers are treated as evil. I don't think people run red lights in New Haven because they're terrible people, but because the lights are terrible and people are at their wit's end after awhile. It should not take a half hour to drive a half a mile.

I agree w u Paul.

Paul,

Although I agree with you that synchronized lights are useful for some people on certain routes (as Jane Jacobs points out, especially if they are synchronized to bus schedules, not high-speed driving schedules), I do not agree that RLCs would make intersections more dangerous. Where is your evidence for that claim? In many cases within the 400 or so U.S. cities where they have been installed, fatalities have dropped dramatically, e.g., by 100% in some cases. That's probably why 400 cities use them.

I agree with you that it should not take someone half an hour to travel half a mile. I walk or bike to work each day, and it takes me between 5 and 15 minutes (including "parking"). The distance is about 9/10ths of a mile. However, New Haven streets are not a highway system. Traffic speeds within urban cores like New Haven should be strictly limited to a maximum of 15 miles per hour.

I am a bit puzzled about your point about "terrible" lights. When I drive or carpool in New Haven, I find that very few lights in New Haven are "erratic" or "unsynchronized." There are times I have driven from Hamden to the New Haven train station and not hit a single red light. Sure, maybe you notice more when a light is red and don't notice when it is green for you.

I also find that when driving, it rarely takes more than 20 minutes to arrive at my destination and find parking, even if I am traveling 2-3 miles. Can you point out a few specific locations where this is a problem?

While you're on the subject of frustration, I would support getting rid of some lights altogether, and replacing them with roundabouts (far safer and slower, and they eliminate the frustration of waiting for lights when there is no traffic).

Interested in hearing your thoughts.

Mark,

When did 15 mph become the policy goal of New Haven as an urban core speed limit? 15 mph on Dixwell? 15 on State Street?

As it stands, 15 is a usual speed limit for alleyways in the U.S. 25 is a more commonly accepted speed limit for city streets, I thought, but correct me if I'm wrong. Why impose a speed limit of 15, which is slower than most cyclists travel?

I don't see what's wrong with synchronized lights. New York City has it, Boston has it. As for traveling from Hamden to Union Station, I have to say I don't believe for a moment that the trip can be done without hitting a red light. I drove that route for nearly a decade. Even at 2 a.m. I sat at red lights as the only one at the intersection. If you made that trip and made every light, I'd suspect you were on a fire engine.

As for the red light cameras, I think the story I remember was out of Corpus Christi, Texas. Instead of going through yellow lights, drivers stopped abruptly and surprised the people behind them.

Of course, if people were driving 15 miles an hour, this would not be a problem, because nobody would be surprised that they weren't getting anywhere.

actually this is somewhat of a paradox. the avg urban traffic speed is actually around 12mph when yuo account for the time people spend stopped at lights. in the middle of new haven it is probably closer to 8 or 10 mph . if everyone drove 10-15 continuously throughout the city, people would actuall get there faster than if people drove 25mph, then stopped, then drove 25, then stopp, etc... just some food for thought. similarly, congestion (e.g. on route 34) and on I91 south near willow/trumbul street) would be less if the speed were limited to 30 mph because cars could travel closer together.

on 15- actually thats a common speed limit in europe cities. also if you say 15, people go 20, which is OK. if you say 20, people go 25, which is too high for various reasons. either do a strict 20, or say 15 (or so) and hope people stay around 20. driving more than 20 in new haven , at least downtown or in the denser areas, is crazy anyways because you are bound to hit an errant pedestrian, cyclist or child at higher speeds. driving 20 givesyou about twice as much time to react than driving 25 does. yes even on state or dixwell, at least closer to the cente of town, people should not be driving that fast because they are likely to kill someone (as well as make peds feel uncomfortble). maybe once you get out pas tthe hockey rink you can raise it to 30.

I might offer a simple metric for evaluating stop-light efficiency. If cars are idling at a red light and there is no traffic passing through intersection on the opposing green light, then time and fuel are being wasted by the idling car. Arguments in favor of this wasted time and fuel might be traffic-calming (by forcing traffic to stop for reasons other than allowing the flow of intersecting traffic), for purposes of enhancing safety or alleviating traffic backups elsewhere, further down the road. Whether or not these are the reasons, any driver in New Haven recognizes that much time is spent idling at red lights when there is no intersecting traffic, especially at off-peak hours. I doubt this is by design in most cases and, if it is, drivers/citizens would benefit from an explanation from the city traffic engineers.

Lets get back to the real issue of WHERE DID THE 4 MILLION DOLLARS GO THE CITY WAS GIVEN TO LOOK AT THIS PROBLEM- any answers traffic and parking???

As for going to the train station with no red lights I agree with Paul above. After living here for 30 years you CANNOT GET ALL GREEN LIGHTS. From Elm to George you get the red light on Court St. then as soon as that turns Green Chapel turns red, then you have to do a minimum of 40 to get the green on George. State street is a nightmare of red lights. Chapel street is the only place you can do 20-25 and get more than a few greens. Not looking for every light to be green or every street to be synchronized. Just want to go further than a block a minute.

Try traveling Whalley through Broadway 2 lights go green then the third red in front of you. Same for High St same for College Same for temple- Once in awhile you can get from Church to State ( Thats one green light.)
Whalley to State 10 minutes minimum.

Whitney to Hamden - 5 minutes ????

Could we just be logical and balance safety with fuel efficeny and traffic flow- seems the engineers at Traffic & Parking could care less about traffic tieups. They send you to the Police department for help, Now thats a joke. There the ones who sign off on the applicvations for construction. State Street one lane hmmm not a problem. Rt 34 closed at Park who cares- why put a traffic cop out when you can leave cones. Does anyone check on Traffic & Parkings recommendations??? Apparently not.

Ne wHaven business as usual.

Its my understanding that Traffic and Parking will be using that money to Sync up many lights.

Is that true traffic and parking?

Ben, you are right, the work is currently underway. They've been doing plenty of work right around where I live.

JQPublic, they ARE working on the lights. Go up Grand Avenue to see that they've been replacing all of the control boxes on the street! I think the system is going to go online next year at some point.

Mark, I'm definitely a fan of keeping speeds in the 15-25mph range. There are however plenty of lights which are oddly timed, making driving down streets (like grove) a stop-start-stop-start affair, even if you are going the speed limit.

I'm ambivilant about red light cameras, HOWEVER I have to say that I'm much more in favor of them than I have been. If it keeps traffic more civil then so be it. Red light running through this city is pretty rampant, both the highly dangerous kind of going through a full-red light -saw it happen twice today- and the still-dangerous increasing drastically of speed to burn the light, which is dangerous to pedestrians.

My big issues are that if they are timed poorly, red light cameras DO increase rear-end collisions (atlhough they also reduce more dangerous collisions), AND, my biggest issue is that they are frequently contracted to private companies who have a financial incentive to
"game" the lights and actually increase infractions to make more money. If the city and state were to operate the cameras themselves, I'd be a little more comfortable that they would have safety rather than revenue at their core interest.

Speaking of money I know that the law to bring them to CT was shelved, with this financial crisis, is there any talk of bringing them in? Since they would bring in revenue, I'm surprised they haven't been returning to the discussion.

Though I'd be hesitant to pile on a comment here, I have to take issue with Mark's assertion that one can drive from Hamden to Union Station and not hit a red light.

I live in Hamden, and I rode a bike to Union Station yesterday. Just for kicks, I decided to keep track of how many times I had to come to a complete stop. Mind you, I'm going somewhere between 10-20 miles per hour.

In total:

4.3 miles
28 traffic lights (28!)
4 stop signs

At 9:20 at night, of the 28 lights, 19 were red when I reached them. At 14 of those 19 reds, I was the only one in the intersection. 11 of those 21 red lights were in a row.

In all, my ride took 28 minutes. 4.3 miles. For 16 of those minutes I was stopped at lights.

Maddening.

Just to clarify... wasn't stopped for the full 16 minutes, as I'm not doing the Tour de France. But had to spend 16 mins either stopped or slowing down to stop/starting to go.

And it was 19 red lights - I mistakenly put 21 in that last sentence. I decided not to count lights that were yellow and that I made it through, which would have added 2.

LOL Rich!

Pedro are you part of traffic and parking? Didn't see your credentials. The control boxes that you see being replaced are part of a larger STATE project which began last year or the year before to replace traffic signals and pedestrian signals up to date. I did not see any factual evidence that Traffic and Parking was doing anything and if they were should it not make sense to start with the downtown area since this is one of the issues that keeps the out of towners from coming here besides the parking nightmare(thats another issue)
As for red light camera's- the legality of this issue is that under current law this type of ticketing cannot be enforced- Maybe if we didn't have to wait for so many red lights more people would be willing to not try and "beat" them. I agree that New Haven drivers are TERRIBLE for the most part- I have yet to see a complete stop at a stop sign.
Traffic and Parking should look at the examples of New York City where they don't have issues of pedestrians getting hit and you can drive more than a block at a time. How come our small town can't even have someone from T & P respond on this site.
I started this issue because I couldn't get an answer out that department or the gentleman who "supposed" to be in charge of this program- where is the money being spent because I know its not going on Grand Avenue- which by the way is one of the easier streets to drive down if they ever finish the bridge between state and olive

Rich T the experience says it all and City Officials wonder why they can't create tourism !!!!

The traffic signal synchronization project is underway and will be completed over the next 6 months.

Sweet! Thanks for the update.

Rich -- should the lights on Whitney be timed for vehicles at 25 mph, or for bikes at 15 mph? Therein lies part of the issue.

I think the best system would provide information so drivers could adjust their speeds based on upcoming light patterns. Such systems are used in Europe.

I took a ZipCar out yesterday, and drove clear across New Haven from Wooster Square to near the Woodbridge Line -- it took me 12 minutes total, and I hit 3 red lights during the entire trip -- one at College, one at Sherman and one at Grasso. If you know how to regulate your speed (e.g., slow down if the intersection ahead is not green), my experience has been that you can drive across many parts of New Haven and hit very few red lights.

It isn't a zero-sum game of course, but I would rather see synchronization funding invested in mass transit and pedestrian infrastructure than trying to tweak the lighting. If we are doing synchronization, I hope that transit and pedestrian travel will be prioritized within the city center districts.

Acknowledged By the Department.

Thank you Traffic and Parking !!! Is there any way to access or get additional information about this project ??

Hey Mark anyone can hit the lottery once in a blue moon. Whalley Avenue will cut u some slack on occassion since it is a STATE ROAD and maintained by the STATE.At least the traffic signals.
Lets do some math - 25 mph at a distance of 5 miles , it would have taken you 20 minutes. 3 red lights 3 more minutes- how fast were you going o advocate of 15 miles an hour speed limits??? I live in Westville and drive from DT to home everyday- world record is 9 minutes at 3am, all green lights and 60+ mph.
You are an obvious newcomer to this area or just don't drive much.
The topic of this blog is "Where did the money go" not "Is there an issue"
The CNH got 6 million to study and correct this problem which Traffic and Parking acknowledged is an issue. Has been for the last 30 years. Not looking for a miracle and yes it does take 20 minutes to go anywhere in town less than 3 miles. Math again. Thats an average of 10 MPH.
Although you do have some good comments you might be better off to stick to your Yale studies and always read the title of the book your reading.
BTW drove down Goffe street this morning and got every green light at 28mph!!! First time for everything.

I used to commute regularly along Whitney from East Rock to Hamden and yes, it was possible to avoid a good number of lights, depending on traffic etc. I found that the slower I went, closer to the speed limit, gave me the best chances of avoiding stop after stop. Given the way many people in New Haven drive (too fast), I worry that too many green lights in a row will cause more problems. At least red lights stop people from achieving high speeds.

I agree with Andi.

That's great, but Andi doesn't drive here anymore. So many of the people voicing strong opinions about this issue don't drive at all or don't drive regularly.

On the other hand, the traffic lights' random uncoordination is a problem for regular law-abiding users of this street, and I would imagine that pedestrians and bicycle riders would want more orderly traffic and happy drivers.

People are more likely to speed when they're more likely to be forced to stop at an empty intersection ten times in ten blocks.

Also: Jane Jacobs was writing at a specific moment about a specific neighborhood. But fine - if you are serious about replicating NYC in New Haven, do you know what you'd be supporting?

Synchronized traffic signals!!

Pete- You're wrong, I do drive here, just in a different place. I notice that people step on the gas and try to get to high speeds quickly, and then get frustrated because they've only managed to race from one red light to the next. My point is that sometimes by going slower, you manage to avoid wasting time at red lights...they've turned green by the time you get to them. This doesn't work everywhere, but in some places it does.

Fair enough. Some day, at some time, someone might not find themselves at every light. It can happen, in the way that a broken clock is right twice a day.

But as someone who drives this road every day, twice a day, early in the morning and late at night, I can tell you that in my experience as a conservative and cautious driver that the traffic lights seem to change at random, are often not connected to sensors, and usually are the culprits in creating traffic congestion that needlessly wastes the time, patience, and fuel of drivers.

If people feel that the function of traffic lights is to create traffic jams and spring surprises on drivers, then the status quo is working very well.

If, on the other hand, the purpose of signals is to create order, the status quo is failing.

I'll just add that Rich's experience seems to be far more common than the outliers.

Timing traffic lights really shouldn't be a controversial issue in this day and age in the same way that the illegality of running red lights isn't seriously under dispute.

Pete, it's not you. The lights really ARE broken. The "brain" that times the lights broke almost 2 years ago. It's getting to be replaced this year.
So this is, like, ACTUALLY a problem and it's ACTUALLY going to get fixed.

Here is an article on the situation:
http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/he_sees_green_lights_in_citys_future/

If you notice, you can see many new light setups in a bunch of intersections,so the system will actually be better than what was there before.

This Summer the system should go online.

And the relevant quote to this whole issue

"When the city’s traffic signals are all synchronized, Notghi explained, motorists driving at a reasonable speed will be able to move smoothly from green light to green light. “If the lights are in synch, there is no reason for you to break the speed limit,” Notghi said. “If you follow the speed limit it will guarantee you to go through all these intersections.”

Ah...

Good to know. Thanks so much, Mr. Soto.

I asked someone from the City about this last summer. Apparently timing traffic lights is easier said than done. While they are supposedly working on upgrading the system, at present, the control boxes are not fully linked together. I asked them if maybe they could just set them on timers, but they said that the clocks are not accurate enough for them to stay in sync for more than a few days.

Fun fact: if you listen to some of the older signal boxes, you can actually hear the mechanical switch mechanism as it switches between phases. I don't know if it's pre-circuit-board technology, or what.

Does Traffic and parking have any update on this issue or a projected completion year!!

Over 1 year, no report of progress, completion or comment. Anyone see any progress or report??

WHERE DID THE MONEY GO !!!!

mmm went to the Johnny D fund

The signals on Elm St have finally been synchronized! The timing seems to vary by time of day. They seem to have been set up for average travel speeds of 25 mph during the morning rush hour. Unfortunately, this means that if there is any delay at all (which is pretty inevitable), one must accelerate to top speeds of 35 to 40 mph once things open up between College and Church to make up for lost time. Otherwise, either Orange St or Church St will likely change to red just before you can get through. 35 to 40 mph is much too fast for downtown, yet this is what you must drive for the two blocks from College to Church if you want to guarantee all green lights from York to State.

At other times of day I have had better luck with more moderate speeds, so I wonder if it is just the effect of congestion that is keeping me from getting through all the lights in the morning. If someone from Transportation, Traffic and Parking is reading this, I would like to register a request that the timing be tweaked during the morning rush hour to make Church and Orange Streets slightly more delayed relative to York, High, and College Streets. The traffic is holding me back from York to College and I am left with too little time to get all the way down to Church and Orange Streets before their lights turn red.

The signal coordination seems to have improved markedly within the past month. Starting from a red light turning green, I have consistently gotten a "green wave" in the past few weeks, with each subsequent signal turning green just before I arrive at the intersection at a reasonable speed (better than before).